World handicap system

[CH919Forged]

I think this new system is a mess. Having got as low as 13.0 in April, I've seen my handicap reach 16.2, have been cut for shooting 34 points and seen 38 result in no change. I know it depends on which 8 of the last 20 is due to fall off. The course slope rating now means my playing handicap is 17 off the whites in a Saturday comp. Initially thought I'd be embarrassed putting a decent score in with 17 shots, but the golf has got so bad that I'm struggling to get 36 points. Have been playing at least once a week, going to the range and even started lessons. Thinking about sticking the full bag on ebay and being done with the game. Love the craic with my four ball but think I actually hate golf. That new handicap system doesn't help. Maybe I need a psychologist rather than a pro but calling yourself names for hours on end every week isn't fun.

 

[CH919Forged]

I think this new system is a mess. Having got as low as 13.0 in April, I've seen my handicap reach 16.2, have been cut for shooting 34 points and seen 38 result in no change. I know it depends on which 8 of the last 20 is due to fall off. The course slope rating now means my playing handicap is 17 off the whites in a Saturday comp. Initially thought I'd be embarrassed putting a decent score in with 17 shots, but the golf has got so bad that I'm struggling to get 36 points. Have been playing at least once a week, going to the range and even started lessons. Thinking about sticking the full bag on ebay and being done with the game. Love the craic with my four ball but think I actually hate golf. That new handicap system doesn't help. Maybe I need a psychologist rather than a pro but calling yourself names for hours on end every week isn't fun.

Thinking about this even more, the new system doesn't seem to take into account the conditions on the day. Some of my last 20 rounds have been in horrible conditions where the score is detrimental to the handicap, but I've been delighted with the score. The old system would have lowered the buffer zone. The club have also introduced one stroke competition every month to give the low handicap golfers a chance to win a competition. 100% agree with this, but for rest of us having the card ruined by the second or third hole and having to stay out there for another 3 hours isn't any fun.

 

[Br1an_g]

Thinking about this even more, the new system doesn't seem to take into account the conditions on the day. Some of my last 20 rounds have been in horrible conditions where the score is detrimental to the handicap, but I've been delighted with the score. The old system would have lowered the buffer zone. The club have also introduced one stroke competition every month to give the low handicap golfers a chance to win a competition. 100% agree with this, but for rest of us having the card ruined by the second or third hole and having to stay out there for another 3 hours isn't any fun.

Whs has a playing condition calculation (PCC) which adjusts based on scores on the day. My recent round at Roxburgh had a pcc of 3 which meant it played a lot harder than handicap. Had a round at scotscraig in blowing gales which was pcc of 2. But normally just sits at 0.

 

[CH919Forged]

Whs has a playing condition calculation (PCC) which adjusts based on scores on the day. My recent round at Roxburgh had a pcc of 3 which meant it played a lot harder than handicap. Had a round at scotscraig in blowing gales which was pcc of 2. But normally just sits at 0.

Just had a look through mine and there's one round I can find where the PCC was 1 and the rest all 0. Had never noticed that PCC before.

 

[DMT]

In theory the WHS was a good idea, however in the stark reality its all a bit wishy washy! Guys that might have been a 4 on the previous handicap system may well be 1 or lower when WHS came into effect, of course it can be said that a 4 chap of old could also be a 6 it just depends on handicap history. A newcomer to golf might get a handicap after a few rounds of golf, play in a competition (particularly in summer with kind weather and lots of run on the fairway) shoot a net 60 off a handicap of 27 and with minimal handicap rounds existing suddenly find himself off 12, as happened at a local course.

But the smoothing effect will make handicaps more accurate........well provided you play every week and 52 weeks of the year, if you are a summer golfer only you might struggle. Also and this is the real kicker some clubs will run multi tee competitions whereby depending on what tees you decide to play off you might receive courtesty shots for playing off the back tees for instance. so a Net 70 off a 5 handicap played off the back tees has a further two shots brought into consideration so in theory would be a net 68. Playing off the back Tess can be very rewarding if you are a low handicapper. So you can see that a golfer originally off 5 can unintentionally reach a scratch handicap with regular consistency and playing from the back tees. But are they a real scratch golfer of old? Well probably not if the truth be known, its not as if their striking or course management has improved but just the "advantage" of playing off the back tees. Certainly if they rock up at another golf course even with a generous slope rating in Gross standards they might potentially struggle to break 80.

When Sergio Garcia turned professional he was plus 5 or plus 6 and look at his talent.

I think there's scope for golfers to use their pre.WHS handicaps in regular roll ups and avoid playing in the Saturday medal but having their own mini comp off their pre WHS handicap.

I’m not sure the “courtesy“ shots are taken into account for handicap adjustments? Early on we had a mixed tee comp where at the end people were surprised to find out they had “extra” shots (pre match comms were poor!). I thought I’d scored 36.....when entering my card in the scoring app I’d scored 41. My score for handicap purposes used the 36 when it updated overnight (not the 41). Apologies if I’ve misunderstood your comment.

 

[2klix]

I think this new system is a mess. Having got as low as 13.0 in April, I've seen my handicap reach 16.2, have been cut for shooting 34 points and seen 38 result in no change. I know it depends on which 8 of the last 20 is due to fall off. The course slope rating now means my playing handicap is 17 off the whites in a Saturday comp. Initially thought I'd be embarrassed putting a decent score in with 17 shots, but the golf has got so bad that I'm struggling to get 36 points. Have been playing at least once a week, going to the range and even started lessons. Thinking about sticking the full bag on ebay and being done with the game. Love the craic with my four ball but think I actually hate golf. That new handicap system doesn't help. Maybe I need a psychologist rather than a pro but calling yourself names for hours on end every week isn't fun.

Stick with it my friend, I changed clubs and went back to lessons and saw scores get worse before changes started to improve. The average scores are reflecting my form and not where I feel my potential best day if I got it all right is.

 

[Halebopp]

I’m not sure the “courtesy“ shots are taken into account for handicap adjustments? Early on we had a mixed tee comp where at the end people were surprised to find out they had “extra” shots (pre match comms were poor!). I thought I’d scored 36.....when entering my card in the scoring app I’d scored 41. My score for handicap purposes used the 36 when it updated overnight (not the 41). Apologies if I’ve misunderstood your comment.

So, you played from a set of tees further back than you would normally play and received 5 more strokes because of it but the club staff entered your score into the system they marked you as having played normal, wrong set of tees?

 

[DMT]

So, you played from a set of tees further back than you would normally play and received 5 more strokes because of it but the club staff entered your score into the system they marked you as having played normal, wrong set of tees?

Not quite. It was a multi tee comp. On our scorecard for men “course” and “slope” are: White 74.6 and 135, Yellow 72.5 and 131 and Red 68.3 and 122. I played off white. My index gave me 10 shots based on slope and white tees. Because it was multi tee and I went off white I got an extra 6 (not 5 sorry). The difference between tees I played and lowest “course” available on the day (so 74.6 minus 68.3). When I logged into our scoring app at the end of the round and selected the white tees it gave me 16 shots. Guys playing off the reds got their ”normal” number of strokes (index adjusted by slope for the colour they played from). So in the stableford comp I must have had 42 but my “score diff” in the WHS didn’t have the extra adjustment.

 

[MTR]

WHS records should always be calculated using stokes received based on CR/SR of the tees actually played (Course Handiap). For the sake of a competition an extra (plus or minus) allowance can be given solely for determining the winner in that competition (Playing Handicap). In casu your scored 36 for handicapping purposes and 42 for the comp.

 

[Halebopp]

Not quite. It was a multi tee comp. On our scorecard for men “course” and “slope” are: White 74.6 and 135, Yellow 72.5 and 131 and Red 68.3 and 122. I played off white. My index gave me 10 shots based on slope and white tees. Because it was multi tee and I went off white I got an extra 6 (not 5 sorry). The difference between tees I played and lowest “course” available on the day (so 74.6 minus 68.3). When I logged into our scoring app at the end of the round and selected the white tees it gave me 16 shots. Guys playing off the reds got their ”normal” number of strokes (index adjusted by slope for the colour they played from). So in the stableford comp I must have had 42 but my “score diff” in the WHS didn’t have the extra adjustment.

Ah, I forgot CONGU doesn't include the Course Rating in the Playing Handicap calculation, hence you need to do separate adjustments to account for it in multi-tee and mixed-gender competitions. Naturally those adjustments wouldn't be taken into account in handicapping. I find the exclusion to be quite odd honestly.

 

[PaulBoy]

Hello ... We had a "spirited" discussion today about WHS at my club - One of the things that was raised was the way WHS was implemented in the UK in relation to submission of scores for General Play - Prior to WHS going live (Nov 20 iirc?) we were told in the UK that the plan was for it to be mandatory to submit a score for all rounds played? - However, prior to implementation of WHS, this was changed from mandatory, to optional? - My understanding was that making submission of scores for all rounds played would have been an administrative nightmare for their clubs, so England Golf decided to make it optional rather than mandatory? - I was sure that I read that the largest player base for golf worldwide (the USA) ran their WHS under the system of submitting all scores (i.e. mandatory rather than optional?) - Is that correct? - Despite trying to find out online myself, I can't confirm or deny this? - If anyone here is in the US or elsewhere in the world, could you please advise how your WHS works in this respect?
Thank you ... Paul

 

[MTR]

Submission is not and (in no system I know of) has never been mandatory for ALL scores. But if a round has been designated as qualifying that score must be submitted. Casual rounds will remain possible in General Play but once intent to submit is pre-registered (rule 2.1a-iii) it is deemed qualifying and WHS kicks in. Not just in the UK but worldwide. As long as players are diligent and honest this would result in all rounds played with scoring intent to be taken into account in handicapping but since some are less so vanity capping and sandbagging will become more of an issue than in a 'official competition only' system.

 

[LOS]

One of the things they do have in the US is inactive seasons due to weather conditions and if courses are played during this time the scores do not count towards their handicap.
https://www.usga.org/handicapping-articles/handicap-active-and-inactive-season-schedule-25489.html


https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/articles/2022/10/Inactive_Posting_Season.html

Do any of the european countries run a similar system?


As from today we are back to fairway mats and no doubt as winter progresses we will have winter tees and greens although it is remarkably warm for this time of year.

 

[LOS]

I just had a look at the ozzy site https://www.golf.org.au/whs/

 

[PaulBoy]

MTR: Thank you for clearing that up - Sadly it is not the case where I play that all players embrace the integrity that should be used in card submission - For various reasons we have players who have decided to manipulate their handicaps - Evidently, it is the issue that EG get the most complaints about ...
LOS: Maybe not quite an answer to your post, but another course I play have just introduced a "Winter Course" - In the winter months New Forest GC do not play off any of their normal tees - Instead there are fixed mats in play or in some cases, tees are just positioned on parts of the fairway - Until this year the club just did not accept ANY scores for the duration of the winter - However, as they still run competitions, they realised that with no handicap changes, the same people (pretty much) won all the competitions, making it an unfair playing field - So they approached EG and asked if a new winter course could be created (with an adjusted slope rating etc) so that scores could still be submitted through the winter? - I played the Winter Course on Saturday & will add my thoughts on it in due course ...

 

[MrK20]

I must admit that I do not follow this debate closely and I have not fully read all the posts so I am sorry if this is an unqualified post.
Here in Germany submitting your score when playing a round seems more the exception than the norm. The only times when you submit a score is either it was a HC relevant Tournament that you specifically entered (most 9/18 hole Stableford Tournaments at your local club for example) or a so called "Extra Day Score" Round, which is a private round that has to be registered beforehand which is then Handicap Relevant (you will need someone who will "count" for you, essentially someone to vouch for you). All other private rounds are non registered and do not contribute to your handicap.

Now I must say I do not like this system. I am very time restriced these days and the last couple of years the only chance I got to play was at 6 in the morning on weekends. Tough luck trying to find a tournament there. I would much prefer if I could just submit all rounds that I play because then my HC would actually be relevant unlike now where it is a bunch of scores submitted 3 years ago. Now in Germany it seems however that this approach is frowned upon as in private rounds you do not have the "pressure" of a tournament. I do not like this way of thinking. What if people just do not like competing in tournaments or playing with strangers week in week out but just want their actual HC so that they can always compete with their friends or even just to have something to put the own score in perspective? I would love to have an actual HC that I could relate to and I could try to improve upon without having to somehow find even more time around a full time job and a young family just to play a bunch of tournaments (that always end up to be 5-6+ hour waiting games due to slow play, as everyone is way to anxious about their score).

Thoughts?

 

[MTR]

@MrK20: The WHS as implemented in Germany allows for General Play scores to be submitted for handicapping (Registrierte Privatrunde) so as long as you play with a marker you can keep your index up to date even at 6am. It being frowned upon should be 'their' problem, not yours; it's in the rules. It was the same under EGA rules (the EDS round) so that has not really changed. Though I agree that playing in a tournament vs social can be very different and for some results in hcp mismatches. Some play worse under pressure, some better.

@LOS: Most EU countries have chosen not to implement an inactive season, but they leave it to each course to maintain qualifying conditions for as long as they can or want. Some courses have winter ratings to take into account the modified layout when playing from temp or artificial tees or to winter greens

 

[MrK20]

@MTR Yes I do know that it is technically possible to play a "Registrierte Privatrunde" but I feel like it is not encouraged to do so. I do not like the "snobby" attitude many people have about their Handicap. For me, the Handicap should serve only 2 purposes: Making for a level playing field when competing with a Handicap (although I, having other sports as a background, much prefer only ever competing without a Handicap) and secondly to allow to track your own progress/game and have something to aim for in the mid to long term.

But I do realize that it is in the end not "my problem" that registered private rounds are not generally looked upon nicely but social pressure has a way of getting to me (and many others I am sure). In the end this leads to me not even bothering in the first place but then being unhappy about it all the same. And I agree, this is something I will have to work on myself.

 

[MTR]

It sucks that you, and most likely others as well, are put in a position like that. As you say, the hcp index exists for very practical reasons and should do only one thing: reflect the current and proven scoring level of a player. It is not a 'symbole d'état'to flaunt or, for that matter, a tool to cheat to win. If players were to submit all rounds played in which they kept score the system would work. Problems arise with cherry picking.

 

[LOS]

@MrK20 & @MTR
Has the license system changed in Germany sinc the WHS started?
Is the license pemanent or can it be taken away for regularly returning a high scores beyond the license limit?
Looking at some of the available stats most of the club members are over 60 and I wonder how many are capable of maintaning a handicap under 36.
I don't know how many courses are available to MrK20 but I would be tempted to move to another club rather than be continually be frustrated by my present club.