World handicap system

Halebopp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
HCP
10.6
Local club/country
Lakeside Golf Vammala, Finland
Irons
MP-H5/53/4
Driver
MP-650/ST180
Hello ... What is the relevance of the date (29th Nov)? - Anyway due to Covid 19 there was a month long lockdown in November 2020 here in the UK so I only played once that month! - I played 10x rounds from end of the lockdown until end of December '20 and at end of that period my HI was 4.8
Does that help?
The 29th was simply a made-up date coming after the 20th. :)

But if the 4.8 was your lowest Handicap Index after November 20, your handicap can now climb all the way up to 9.8. That 2.6 will drop off after you return your next score.
 

PaulBoy

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Joined
Nov 18, 2012
HCP
WHS 6.4
Local club/country
Army GC
Irons
Mizuno JPX919 Tour (4-PW) Modus3 105s
Driver
Mizuno ST200G Graphite Design Tour AD VR-50s
The 29th was simply a made-up date coming after the 20th. :)

But if the 4.8 was your lowest Handicap Index after November 20, your handicap can now climb all the way up to 9.8. That 2.6 will drop off after you return your next score.
No, as I mentioned already, the lowest HI I have had between the start of WHS & today (21/1021) is 3.9 - I am trying to find out if there is a point in time when the LHI changes? - It was set at start of WHS (04/11/20) at 2.6 - No one I have asked has been able to tell me if it will EVER change from 2.6 other than in the extremely unlikely event that I managed to get my HI under 2.6?
Is it the case that those who administer WHS have not legislated for someone who is given a LHI which they never get lower than?
For example, if when WHS started, I had been allocated my old CONGU handicap (5.4) as my LHI it is quite straightforward that my LHI would have now come down to 3.9 which is the lowest HI I have had?
 

Halebopp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
HCP
10.6
Local club/country
Lakeside Golf Vammala, Finland
Irons
MP-H5/53/4
Driver
MP-650/ST180
No, as I mentioned already, the lowest HI I have had between the start of WHS & today (21/1021) is 3.9 - I am trying to find out if there is a point in time when the LHI changes? - It was set at start of WHS (04/11/20) at 2.6 - No one I have asked has been able to tell me if it will EVER change from 2.6 other than in the extremely unlikely event that I managed to get my HI under 2.6?
Is it the case that those who administer WHS have not legislated for someone who is given a LHI which they never get lower than?
For example, if when WHS started, I had been allocated my old CONGU handicap (5.4) as my LHI it is quite straightforward that my LHI would have now come down to 3.9 which is the lowest HI I have had?
The Low Handicap Index is your lowest handicap index from the past 365 days of your last returned score.

So, if your last returned score is from Nov 19 2021, your Low Handicap Index is taken from Nov 20 2020 - Nov 19 2021 (in which case the original 2.6 still counts). After returning your next score on, say Dec 5, your Low Handicap Index would be your lowest Handicap Index from Dec 6 2020 to Dec 5 2021 and so forth.
 

PaulBoy

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Joined
Nov 18, 2012
HCP
WHS 6.4
Local club/country
Army GC
Irons
Mizuno JPX919 Tour (4-PW) Modus3 105s
Driver
Mizuno ST200G Graphite Design Tour AD VR-50s
Thanks again! - As mentioned above, November '20 was a write off due to UK Covid Lockdown - In December '20 I played 10 rounds & my HI went as follows:
2nd Dec 3.0
4th Dec 3.3
9th Dec 3.6
11th Dec 3.6
12th Dec 3.6
14th Dec 3.6
16th Dec 4.1
18th Dec 4.1
28th Dec 4.1
30 Dec 4.8
If I understand what you are saying, when I get to a date after 2nd Dec this year my LHI will change from 2.6 to 3.0? - Likewise when I get to a date after 18th Dec my LHI will change to 4.1? - Finally, when I get to a date after 30th Dec this year my LHI will change to 4.8? - Have I cracked this now?
Cheers ... Paul
 

MTR

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
HCP
f0re
Local club/country
EU
Irons
MP-9-11-14-29-37
- Have I cracked this now?
Almost ;)
LHI = lowest actual HI held within 365 days prior to last score returned. So only if your HI had never been <4.8 in all of 2021 your LHI could be 4.8 after playing a round on Dec 31st. But since you said you are currently at 4.5, that would be a lower index held within the time period and affect LHI.
 

PaulBoy

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Joined
Nov 18, 2012
HCP
WHS 6.4
Local club/country
Army GC
Irons
Mizuno JPX919 Tour (4-PW) Modus3 105s
Driver
Mizuno ST200G Graphite Design Tour AD VR-50s
OK everyone can breathe a sigh of relief, I officially give up trying to work this out - I will soldier on with whatever happens to me on WHS LHI & otherwise - I thought it'd be straightforward, but clearly it isn't ...
 

Halebopp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
HCP
10.6
Local club/country
Lakeside Golf Vammala, Finland
Irons
MP-H5/53/4
Driver
MP-650/ST180
Thanks again! - As mentioned above, November '20 was a write off due to UK Covid Lockdown - In December '20 I played 10 rounds & my HI went as follows:
2nd Dec 3.0
4th Dec 3.3
9th Dec 3.6
11th Dec 3.6
12th Dec 3.6
14th Dec 3.6
16th Dec 4.1
18th Dec 4.1
28th Dec 4.1
30 Dec 4.8
If I understand what you are saying, when I get to a date after 2nd Dec this year my LHI will change from 2.6 to 3.0? - Likewise when I get to a date after 18th Dec my LHI will change to 4.1? - Finally, when I get to a date after 30th Dec this year my LHI will change to 4.8? - Have I cracked this now?
Cheers ... Paul
If you were to play a round today, your new Low Handicap Index would be 3.0, the Lowest Handicap Index from 23/10/20 to 22/10/21. After a qualifying round on Dec 5 it would be 3.6 and, like you said, after a round on Dec 18 it would be 4.1 (you'd get there with a round already on Dec 16 though).
 

PaulBoy

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Joined
Nov 18, 2012
HCP
WHS 6.4
Local club/country
Army GC
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Mizuno JPX919 Tour (4-PW) Modus3 105s
Driver
Mizuno ST200G Graphite Design Tour AD VR-50s
Thanks again! - As mentioned above, November '20 was a write off due to UK Covid Lockdown - In December '20 I played 10 rounds & my HI went as follows:
2nd Dec 3.0
4th Dec 3.3
9th Dec 3.6
11th Dec 3.6
12th Dec 3.6
14th Dec 3.6
16th Dec 4.1
18th Dec 4.1
28th Dec 4.1
30 Dec 4.8
If I understand what you are saying, when I get to a date after 2nd Dec this year my LHI will change from 2.6 to 3.0? - Likewise when I get to a date after 18th Dec my LHI will change to 4.1? - Finally, when I get to a date after 30th Dec this year my LHI will change to 4.8? - Have I cracked this now?
Cheers ... Paul
Not that I'm complaining, but could someone (Halebopp or MTR maybe?) explain how my LHI has changed TODAY (4th November '21) from 2.6 to 3.0?
WHS started in the UK on 4th November '20 so it is not 365 days since my lowest LHI (2.6)

It also makes me laugh (though I understand why) that I can tee up on Monday this week & receive 4x shots in a stableford points round, but when I tee it up again on Friday for another stableford round, I will be getting 6x shots! - In the "old days" such a change in handicap would have taken a minimum of 20x rounds (going up 0.1 per round) - Under WHS I have achieved this with 2x rounds (both scoring 33pts by the way)
 

LOS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Local club/country
England
Not that I'm complaining, but could someone (Halebopp or MTR maybe?) explain how my LHI has changed TODAY (4th November '21) from 2.6 to 3.0?
WHS started in the UK on 4th November '20 so it is not 365 days since my lowest LHI (2.6)

It also makes me laugh (though I understand why) that I can tee up on Monday this week & receive 4x shots in a stableford points round, but when I tee it up again on Friday for another stableford round, I will be getting 6x shots! - In the "old days" such a change in handicap would have taken a minimum of 20x rounds (going up 0.1 per round) - Under WHS I have achieved this with 2x rounds (both scoring 33pts by the way)
Paul the WHS system started in England on the 2nd of November.
 

PaulBoy

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Joined
Nov 18, 2012
HCP
WHS 6.4
Local club/country
Army GC
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Mizuno JPX919 Tour (4-PW) Modus3 105s
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Mizuno ST200G Graphite Design Tour AD VR-50s
Paul the WHS system started in England on the 2nd of November.
Thanks LOS my mistake (senior moment!)
 

Stewart 57

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Joined
Sep 13, 2011
Location
Sandnes, Norway
HCP
15
Local club/country
Egersund Golf Club, Norway
Irons
Mizuno MP 5`s 4 - PW. MP T7 ,50,54,&58 dgr, wedges, Mizuno A, 309 Putter,
Driver
MP650 driver, MP650 3 wood, JPX 800, hybrid,
LOS, it take the results from your last 20 rounds. So if you played on the monday ,now played 21 rounds it takes your monday round and your last 19 rounds, I have gone from 14-15.5 , I will go into my club and print out my hcp to show you how it works
 

Steve Smith

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Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Local club/country
Newcastle upon tyne
That's the problem we are all going to face I'm afraid - One of the prime objective's of WHS was to make golf "more inclusive" which means that everyone, regardless of ability, can obtain a handicap (up to 54 I believe?) & head out on the course in all types of golf, including competitions - I don't object to this in principal, but don't like the sound of what happened in your case - I just wouldn't play in such an event, which sadly might mean I won't be playing in much competition golf anymore? - It has taken me a lifetime to play golf to the standard I have achieved & I just can't see the point in attempting to play against Mr 48 Handicap from your club in any type of game...
Paul
Its a cheaters charter. The WHS allows people to put in any score they wish as a "friendly game"
 

LOS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Local club/country
England
Do you have many independent golfers in the UK? Practically everyone here in Finland belongs to a club and those who don't are stuck playing a handful of par-3 courses and even then they usually need to be accompanied by someone who's a member at some club and has passed the golf license test.

We used to have the online verification of returned extra-day scores but they did away with it when the WHS kicked in, most probably because of the PCC and the need to have the scores in the system before they do the PCC run at night. That's a big reason why I dislike PCC.
Originally I didn't think anyone knew how many independent Golfers we have in England but their is a new report out on European Golf Participation which has the following graphic:-
1638614568150.png

I never expected it to be as high as that.
 
Likes: Halebopp

PaulBoy

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Joined
Nov 18, 2012
HCP
WHS 6.4
Local club/country
Army GC
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Mizuno JPX919 Tour (4-PW) Modus3 105s
Driver
Mizuno ST200G Graphite Design Tour AD VR-50s
That is surprising! - Never realised how many golfers in the UK were not members of clubs, or the total number of golfers we have here? - Any idea what the "Course Demand" count relates to?
 

LOS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Local club/country
England
I read that as the number of different golfers who play course averaged out over all the courses.
 

Halebopp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
HCP
10.6
Local club/country
Lakeside Golf Vammala, Finland
Irons
MP-H5/53/4
Driver
MP-650/ST180
I have to say I was surprised by the numbers for Finland. I would've thought there might be a couple of hundred non-registered golfers playing on the handful of par-3 courses a couple of times a year but they give the number as 43 000, or over a fifth of all 200 000 golfers.
 

PaulBoy

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Joined
Nov 18, 2012
HCP
WHS 6.4
Local club/country
Army GC
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Mizuno JPX919 Tour (4-PW) Modus3 105s
Driver
Mizuno ST200G Graphite Design Tour AD VR-50s
Thought I would bring this thread back up rather than start a new one - I would like to know if anyone here is on the WHS Handicap Committee for their golf club?
The issue I have is not one I really want to go into on a public forum, so if there is anyone here on their club handicap committee, could you possibly contact me via PM please? Thank you ... Paul
 

WalkerCup

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May 5, 2016
Location
British Isles
HCP
Scratch
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British Isles
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Mizuno JPX 921 Forged 4-PW KBS Tour 120 Stiff , 3 Deg up plus 1”
Driver
Ping G425 Max 10.5 HZRDS Blue Stiff
In theory the WHS was a good idea, however in the stark reality its all a bit wishy washy! Guys that might have been a 4 on the previous handicap system may well be 1 or lower when WHS came into effect, of course it can be said that a 4 chap of old could also be a 6 it just depends on handicap history. A newcomer to golf might get a handicap after a few rounds of golf, play in a competition (particularly in summer with kind weather and lots of run on the fairway) shoot a net 60 off a handicap of 27 and with minimal handicap rounds existing suddenly find himself off 12, as happened at a local course.

But the smoothing effect will make handicaps more accurate........well provided you play every week and 52 weeks of the year, if you are a summer golfer only you might struggle. Also and this is the real kicker some clubs will run multi tee competitions whereby depending on what tees you decide to play off you might receive courtesty shots for playing off the back tees for instance. so a Net 70 off a 5 handicap played off the back tees has a further two shots brought into consideration so in theory would be a net 68. Playing off the back Tess can be very rewarding if you are a low handicapper. So you can see that a golfer originally off 5 can unintentionally reach a scratch handicap with regular consistency and playing from the back tees. But are they a real scratch golfer of old? Well probably not if the truth be known, its not as if their striking or course management has improved but just the "advantage" of playing off the back tees. Certainly if they rock up at another golf course even with a generous slope rating in Gross standards they might potentially struggle to break 80.

When Sergio Garcia turned professional he was plus 5 or plus 6 and look at his talent.

I think there's scope for golfers to use their pre.WHS handicaps in regular roll ups and avoid playing in the Saturday medal but having their own mini comp off their pre WHS handicap.
 

PaulBoy

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Joined
Nov 18, 2012
HCP
WHS 6.4
Local club/country
Army GC
Irons
Mizuno JPX919 Tour (4-PW) Modus3 105s
Driver
Mizuno ST200G Graphite Design Tour AD VR-50s
"A bit wishy washy" is way too polite for me! - WHS as it exists in the US & many other countries works because players must submit cards for all rounds played - EG here in the UK decided to change this from being mandatory to optional - Whilst the majority of people I play with do submit all cards, some do not & it is too easy to manipulate your handicap to a position where, for example, you can be a 13hcp playing off 18hcp & scoring 40+pts week in & week out ...
 
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