World handicap system

Rappers

New Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2020
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4.4
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Northwood Middlesex
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Mizuno JPX919 5-PW T20 GW&SW Wedges
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TM M4 Regular 10.5
#61
Bit late joining the party, I understand the concept of the new WHS but I do have some reservations. For example, it appears that lower handicap golfers have had their handicap reduced and higher handicappers increased. This may well even itself out with the slope rating, but in some ways the SL negates the handicap system in the first place.

Having done a dry run I put in my handicap on a very tough course and I gained one shot, up to 6 from 5, whereas a 20 handicapper would gain several shots. Ok on an easier course the gains and losses are not so extreme.
 

PaulBoy

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Joined
Nov 18, 2012
HCP
WHS 5.2
Local club/country
Army GC & New Forest GC
Irons
Mizuno MP-5 (4-PW) NS Pro 1150 Stiff
Driver
Callaway Rogue 10.5 MRC Tensei Orange 60s
#62
As you have mentioned above, your country has been using WHS for several months before here in the UK - You should have a better idea of whether the new Handicap Index is indeed a "measure of a player's ability"? - Looking from the outside, a CONGU handicap was such a measure, provided the holder played regularly in competitions (or other qualifying rounds)
WHS does not appear to me to do the same, as your handicap index is based on your most recent 20 rounds - As a retired person I can play 20 rounds in just over a month, so my current handicap index of 3.0 (itself based on scores back to Feb 2018 on a course I was very familiar with) is likely to change drastically after a months worth of play? - This is based on how I have been scoring at my current course, which I am still getting the hang of after just over a year - Maybe after nearly 60 years of playing this game (I started when I was four) I will have a handicap index that, for the first time ever, evokes the "bandit" moniker?
Paul
I thought I'd do a quick update on WHS and how it is working for me? - As a quick recap, I was allocated a WHS Handicap Index (HI) of 2.6 and was less than impressed given my old CONGU handicap was 4.5 (& had never been lower than 4.3) - Mainly this was because the low rounds on my profile were at my old course where I had played for over 20 years, with only a few rounds at my new course of about 18 months - I also tried to get my club to do a Handicap Review but this was declined as I did not have the required 20 scores on my profile - From start of WHS in November I began to submit cards for all rounds played - I am now well past the 20 rounds from which my HI is calculated - Bearing in mind that I was unable to play any golf in November (Covid Lockdown) I have already taken my HI from 2.6 to it's current mark of 5.2 - With a number of counting scores from my old club still waiting to drop off my profile, I anticipate my HI will continue to climb? - I was told there was a cap on how many shots a HI could increase in a calendar year (5?) so it remains to be seen if that is what happens? - The reason for my skepticism on this is that I was also told that there was a 3 shot cap on how many shots a HI could come down (3) but a pal of mine has already come down 6 shots!
Paul
 

PaulBoy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
HCP
WHS 5.2
Local club/country
Army GC & New Forest GC
Irons
Mizuno MP-5 (4-PW) NS Pro 1150 Stiff
Driver
Callaway Rogue 10.5 MRC Tensei Orange 60s
#64
Hi LOS ... Thanks for the information - So, as far as I can see, the highest HI I can reach is 2.6 + 5 i.e. 7.6 (?) - Was the information I was told that this calculation was for a calendar year (?) - That would be from WHS going live on 2nd November '20 presumably (?)
Cheers ... Paul
 

LOS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Local club/country
England
#65
I assume the 2.6 was designated as your "Low Handicap Index" after having 20 qualifyng scores submitted? If it was then the highest you can reach would be 7.6 for 365 days from the date when your low handicap was designated. Not every player will have had sufficient scores submitted by 2nd November so their 365 days will start from when their low handicap index is designated.
 

PaulBoy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
HCP
WHS 5.2
Local club/country
Army GC & New Forest GC
Irons
Mizuno MP-5 (4-PW) NS Pro 1150 Stiff
Driver
Callaway Rogue 10.5 MRC Tensei Orange 60s
#66
Hello ... No, the 2.6 was my first WHS Handicap Index when I only had 16 qualifying scores - I could check what my HI was when I reached 20 qualifying scores, but my understanding was that 2.6 would be my "Low Handicap Index" regardless of how many qualifying scores were used to obtain it? - That was the reason I asked my Club for a Handicap Review when I was given 2.6 and also why I asked again when I reached 20 qualifying scores & my HI was higher? - Both requests were denied (I queried this with England Golf who stated a member could request a Handicap Review at any time?) - I gave up discussing this with my Club ...
Paul
PS - According to the IG App which links directly with EG my Low Handicap Index is 2.6
 

LOS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Local club/country
England
#67
With 16 rounds you will have been given handicap Index based on the average of your lowest 5 rounds. However you should have at least 20 acceptable scores to be given a "Low Handicap Index"

1609427870597.png
 

PaulBoy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
HCP
WHS 5.2
Local club/country
Army GC & New Forest GC
Irons
Mizuno MP-5 (4-PW) NS Pro 1150 Stiff
Driver
Callaway Rogue 10.5 MRC Tensei Orange 60s
#68
I appreciate what you are saying, but in my case my Low Handicap Index has never changed from the initial 2.6 on 2nd November '20 to date
I have just sent an email to EG asking for clarification, but I have sent several previous emails to EG on WHS and their stock reply seems to be
to refer me to pdf's of their Toolkit & FAQs
Paul
 

MTR

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Joined
Nov 24, 2010
HCP
f0re
Local club/country
EU
Irons
MP-9-11-14-29-37
#69
Authorities are struggling with the implementation on all fronts ;). The rules are as stated: LHI is determined with 20 scores present, but most EU/UK software systems will not be able to cope if the initial (transition) index is based on less than 20 scores and the 'real' LHI after 20 scores is higher. The basically neglected to implement that rule.

EDIT: going from 16 to 20 scores with none of the new results in the best 8 will not lower your index and LHI will be the same as initial.
 

PaulBoy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
HCP
WHS 5.2
Local club/country
Army GC & New Forest GC
Irons
Mizuno MP-5 (4-PW) NS Pro 1150 Stiff
Driver
Callaway Rogue 10.5 MRC Tensei Orange 60s
#70
Authorities are struggling with the implementation on all fronts ;). The rules are as stated: LHI is determined with 20 scores present, but most EU/UK software systems will not be able to cope if the initial (transition) index is based on less than 20 scores and the 'real' LHI after 20 scores is higher. The basically neglected to implement that rule.

EDIT: going from 16 to 20 scores with none of the new results in the best 8 will not lower your index and LHI will be the same as initial.

Surely the LHI should be reassessed once 20 qualifying scores are recorded? - In my case, that would reset the LHI to a higher figure, which I believe is a better assessment of my playing ability? - My LHI has been left at 2.6 & has never changed which I believe is unfair? - It will be interesting to see what EG say ...
Paul
 

PaulBoy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
HCP
WHS 5.2
Local club/country
Army GC & New Forest GC
Irons
Mizuno MP-5 (4-PW) NS Pro 1150 Stiff
Driver
Callaway Rogue 10.5 MRC Tensei Orange 60s
#71
Surely the LHI should be reassessed once 20 qualifying scores are recorded? - In my case, that would reset the LHI to a higher figure, which I believe is a better assessment of my playing ability? - My LHI has been left at 2.6 & has never changed which I believe is unfair? - It will be interesting to see what EG say ...
Paul
EG have now replied to my query about my LHI - As well as pointing out the correct support procedure (Club Hcap Committee as first POC) they advised "... they will confirm that a low index can only be calculated with 20 scores in the players record" - As mentioned above, the LHI software seems to work fine for someone who's LHI is coming down, but, in my case anyway, does not seem to adjust if your LHI was set too early?
Paul
 

LOS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Local club/country
England
#72
England Golf: Official handicaps will be offered to independent golfers
https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/england-golf-offer-independent-golfers-official-handicap/

I am still against this, not from protecting club membership, as I don't see how they are going to manage this. Are we going to have a situation where people can put in their own scores as I can see a lot of clubs not being prepared to enter visitors rounds for non-competition rounds and this could lead to abuse of the handicap system.
 

PaulBoy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
HCP
WHS 5.2
Local club/country
Army GC & New Forest GC
Irons
Mizuno MP-5 (4-PW) NS Pro 1150 Stiff
Driver
Callaway Rogue 10.5 MRC Tensei Orange 60s
#73
England Golf: Official handicaps will be offered to independent golfers
https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/england-golf-offer-independent-golfers-official-handicap/

I am still against this, not from protecting club membership, as I don't see how they are going to manage this. Are we going to have a situation where people can put in their own scores as I can see a lot of clubs not being prepared to enter visitors rounds for non-competition rounds and this could lead to abuse of the handicap system.
As if WHS itself wasn't a big enough mess? - Now EG plan to issue handicaps to "Independent Golfers"? - I can understand that EG want to tap into a further million plus golfers who do not have club membership, but how on earth could this be administered? - There are plenty of golf societies that are well run with some sort of handicap structure, but I would suggest these are in the minority? - If the club opens I play in every year started to allow these independent golfers to play I certainly wouldn't be taking part - At least when you knew (pre WHS) that all players had official CONGU handicaps, you felt that there was a level playing field - I can't see that being the case if this latest EG plan goes ahead ...
Paul
 
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