World handicap system

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#21
Someone with a 48 handicap has managed to shoot 31 points over 9 holes in our winter league today in absolutely horrible conditions including heavy rain and winds. Should add it was the B nine which is harder. They'll not get cut because it's non qualifying. Absolute joke. If they're capable of that score today I'd hate to see them in good weather. At the risk of sounding bitter it really makes entering competitions pointless for the rest of the club. I'd hate to be the person who came second (it wasn't me).
i think it depends on the situation/player (and from my understanding was also an issue under the old system).

so in my case I am a new golfer (started playing during furlough June time and joined my local club at the end of August), was advised by the club to get my handicap as quickly as possible due to the improvements you should see in the first couple of years. So I did just that and my first 3 cards went in with scores between 115 and 120 and ended up with a handicap of 31 since then I have played on average a round every other day (joys of furlough and working from home) had lessons and now breaking 90, looking at the past few tournaments if I hit 90 I would have won or come second in the majority of them based on my current handicap which I would agree would annoy the crap out of ppl, but ultimately am I doing anything wrong by that obviously no and everyone would have had the same opportunity when they got their first handicap etc etc.

I think this year will make it worse due to the increase in people playing golf but surely over time the handicaps will come down and “level the playing field” again especially as I would have imagined the majority of players are more interested in playing and lowering handicaps rather than playing in comps (I know that’s the case in my book).
 
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#22
i think it depends on the situation/player (and from my understanding was also an issue under the old system).

so in my case I am a new golfer (started playing during furlough June time and joined my local club at the end of August), was advised by the club to get my handicap as quickly as possible due to the improvements you should see in the first couple of years. So I did just that and my first 3 cards went in with scores between 115 and 120 and ended up with a handicap of 31 since then I have played on average a round every other day (joys of furlough and working from home) had lessons and now breaking 90, looking at the past few tournaments if I hit 90 I would have won or come second in the majority of them based on my current handicap which I would agree would annoy the crap out of ppl, but ultimately am I doing anything wrong by that obviously no and everyone would have had the same opportunity when they got their first handicap etc etc.

I think this year will make it worse due to the increase in people playing golf but surely over time the handicaps will come down and “level the playing field” again especially as I would have imagined the majority of players are more interested in playing and lowering handicaps rather than playing in comps (I know that’s the case in my book).
I think you're right the new system will make it worse. Congratulations on taking up the game and glad to see you're doing the right things to get better. Practice amd lessons are key. I hope you stay hooked on the game. Please don't enter a competition with your current handicap though if you know you're 11 shots better than it. Let your club handicap committee know you've improved and ask them to review.
 
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#23
I think you're right the new system will make it worse. Congratulations on taking up the game and glad to see you're doing the right things to get better. Practice amd lessons are key. I hope you stay hooked on the game. Please don't enter a competition with your current handicap though if you know you're 11 shots better than it. Let your club handicap committee know you've improved and ask them to review.
Thanks, oh definitely hooked (just waiting on some 921’s to turn up so I can throw away my off the shelf cheap clubs), I have no intention of entering competitions just not my thing, Just getting my playing partner his handicap and going forward we will be submitting scores every time we play to get the handicap as low as possible (that’s our thing rather than a voucher at the pro shop etc) 👍🏻👍🏻
 
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#24
Thanks, oh definitely hooked (just waiting on some 921’s to turn up so I can throw away my off the shelf cheap clubs), I have no intention of entering competitions just not my thing, Just getting my playing partner his handicap and going forward we will be submitting scores every time we play to get the handicap as low as possible (that’s our thing rather than a voucher at the pro shop etc) 👍🏻👍🏻
You'll enjoy the new clubs! I only got my 919's in June. Knew the new models were due out but after 3 months not playing from March I couldn't wait. That's one of the positives of the new system that you put every card in. By the sounds of it your golf is going in the right direction. I'd say give club comps ago once you know your handicap is a fair reflection of your ability. Good way to meet other members and get into the social side of it (albeit a bit restricted at the moment).
 
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PaulBoy

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#26
i think it depends on the situation/player (and from my understanding was also an issue under the old system).

so in my case I am a new golfer (started playing during furlough June time and joined my local club at the end of August), was advised by the club to get my handicap as quickly as possible due to the improvements you should see in the first couple of years. So I did just that and my first 3 cards went in with scores between 115 and 120 and ended up with a handicap of 31 since then I have played on average a round every other day (joys of furlough and working from home) had lessons and now breaking 90, looking at the past few tournaments if I hit 90 I would have won or come second in the majority of them based on my current handicap which I would agree would annoy the crap out of ppl, but ultimately am I doing anything wrong by that obviously no and everyone would have had the same opportunity when they got their first handicap etc etc.

I think this year will make it worse due to the increase in people playing golf but surely over time the handicaps will come down and “level the playing field” again especially as I would have imagined the majority of players are more interested in playing and lowering handicaps rather than playing in comps (I know that’s the case in my book).
I don't have a problem with people taking up the game & in your own case, I welcome you on board, especially as you have found the best club manufacturer already! ... However, as you rightly point out it will "annoy the crap" out of people should a new player such as yourself start scoring 90 in competitions with a handicap of 30 or beyond - Until WHS came along, the maximum handicap for men was 28 and there were plenty of people who were up in arms about the increase from 24 to 28! - Clubs have been taking on new members hand over fist in this area, so it will be interesting to see what measures (if any) are taken to include or exclude them from club competitions & matches now that the handicap limit has been raised so high?
Paul
 
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#27
I don't have a problem with people taking up the game & in your own case, I welcome you on board, especially as you have found the best club manufacturer already! ... However, as you rightly point out it will "annoy the crap" out of people should a new player such as yourself start scoring 90 in competitions with a handicap of 30 or beyond - Until WHS came along, the maximum handicap for men was 28 and there were plenty of people who were up in arms about the increase from 24 to 28! - Clubs have been taking on new members hand over fist in this area, so it will be interesting to see what measures (if any) are taken to include or exclude them from club competitions & matches now that the handicap limit has been raised so high?
Paul
My club doesn’t allow new members/new handicap players to enter into main cups until they have to played in 3 medals first (I guess that’s to pickup on these kind of issues or it could just be a standard thing 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️, they have had that rule in since at least 2017 they need to update the new member info 😉).
 

Halebopp

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#28
All competitions have been capped at 36 for years (most probably always) here in Finland. A 48 handicap is welcome to join but his/her Handicap Index is 36 for competitions.
 
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#29
Why was the score non-qualifying if it was a competition score?
It's winter league so it's preferred lies throughout (course is very wet) and green tees rather than competition whites. It's also not a normal 9 holes it's a mix of 5 from front and 4 from back (or other way round if you choose to play the B 9. Sounds like a strange setup but it works well for winter golf.
 
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#30
The same player managed just 30 points over 9 holes today in better weather with the same handicap. He must have played crap. I understand it's winter conditions but the club really need to something about it. It's tantamount to cheating and if it was me I'd be ashamed to submit the card.
 

Halebopp

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#31
It's winter league so it's preferred lies throughout (course is very wet) and green tees rather than competition whites. It's also not a normal 9 holes it's a mix of 5 from front and 4 from back (or other way round if you choose to play the B 9. Sounds like a strange setup but it works well for winter golf.
Ok, Preferred Lies extended to the whole General Area does go against the rules. But the set of tees wouldn't be an issue, that's the reason the tees are rated to begin with. If the club uses that 9-hole course regularly, they should definitely contact the union and ask them to rate it for you. It's probably a ten-minute job for the person handling these issues in your national union.

Also, the handicap committee does have the right to review the player's handicap and adjust it accordingly if they see the need.
 
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WalkerCup

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#32
I had a but of posters remorse after putting this up last night thinking perhaps I was a bit harsh, but it's not a level playing field and definitely disadvantages better players! (Not counting myself as a better player btw) Difficult problem for clubs to solve. Can they have more divisions in the summer and then end up with some super high handicap division with a field of 3? I fear for club competitions until this works itself out.
Firstly, I would say you are correct in posting the story of the 31 points over 9 holes. Dial it back to a low handicap golfer if you were Scratch you would have to be 9 under gross just to score 27 points, realistically is this going to happen, let alone be 13 under gross for nine holes for 31 points. The whole thing is nonsense all thats going to happen is people will play their own competitions amongst themselves and run their own handicaps. Tell me the last time someone was asked for a handicap certificate at a visiting golf course!!!
 
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PaulBoy

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#33
Firstly, I would say you are correct in posting the story of the 31 points over 9 holes. Dial it back to a low handicap golfer if you were Scratch you would have to be 9 under gross just to score 27 points, realistically is this going to happen, let alone be 13 under gross for nine holes for 31 points. The whole thing is nonsense all thats going to happen is people will play their own competitions amongst themselves and run their own handicaps. Tell me the last time someone was asked for a handicap certificate at a visiting golf course!!!
As per WC's comments above, that's pretty much as I see it - Luckily for me I don't really play competitive golf now, but until WHS came along I was keen to play in enough competitions to try & keep a handicap that reflected my ability? - I do not believe my 3.0 World Handicap Index reflects that now, so I plan to submit cards for all rounds I play in the future to see how WHS works for me? - There seem to be a few on here who are on handicap committees etc so maybe someone can answer this question for me?
Looking my WHS profile on England Golf I see that my scoring round history goes back to 9th February 2018 when I was actually a member at Guildford GC - Indeed, all the lowest scores (on which my handicap index is based) were done at Guildford - As I understand, your Handicap Index is based on your best 8 scores over the last 20 rounds? - I did not have 20 rounds recorded (I had 16 recorded when initially assessed as 2.6 Index so 6 best scores used) - I submitted 2 cards before lockdown in England & my Index was adjusted to 3.0 - When we get back playing I will be able to get another 2 cards submitted & that should see another adjustment as I will then have the full 20 rounds recorded?
So my question is, once you get to 20 completed rounds and continue to submit cards, is there a cut off point for cards that are used for assessment? - Will my low scores from Guildford continue to be used as my best scores ad infinitum, or do they drop off at a certain date (2 years possibly?) - If this was the case, this would make quite a difference to my Handicap Index as my main club (Army GC) despite it's lower Slope Rating is actually a much harder course for me to score on? - It is longer than Guildford & imho much more "dangerous" (ditches across & along fairways) and tree lined, as well as tricky greens that even the older members still can't work out?)
Paul ;)
 

PaulBoy

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#35
Paul the system does not use all your scores from the year dot but is essentially a rolling system which uses your 20 MOST RECENT scores.

England Golf PP presentation
"It is calculated by averaging the best 8 score differentials out of themost recent 20 within your scoring record "
https://www.englandgolf.org/wp-cont...es-of-Handicapping-Player-Reference-Guide.pdf
Thanks LOS, so as I progress past 20 scores say to 25, the oldest 5 recorded scores will drop off & no longer be used to calculate my Handicap Index?
If that's the case, once the older rounds from my previous club are no longer current my handicap should climb quite considerably as I have struggled to score well at my new course due to the reasons I mentioned above - Perhaps I' should get my sombrero dusted off!
Paul
 

LOS

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#36

PaulBoy

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#37

Brattz

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#38
Thanks again LOS ... I have the App & was pleased to see some useful features therein - Searching facility to see what your pals are playing off should be a very handy one!
Paul
I’m glad I turned pro. The WHS is a joke. What made me laugh is that before making that decision I asked England golf if my European Golf Union handicap would be merged with my CONGU handicap so that my last 20 scores included my french club competitions..... answer was no. So it didn’t make it a ‘World’ system. So I was due to chose of o was to keep my french club handicap index of 1.7 or take my New England Golf one of 1.9.... ditched both. Now 0.0 🤣
 

WalkerCup

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#39
I’m glad I turned pro. The WHS is a joke. What made me laugh is that before making that decision I asked England golf if my European Golf Union handicap would be merged with my CONGU handicap so that my last 20 scores included my french club competitions..... answer was no. So it didn’t make it a ‘World’ system. So I was due to chose of o was to keep my french club handicap index of 1.7 or take my New England Golf one of 1.9.... ditched both. Now 0.0 🤣
Absolutely, World should mean GLOBAL not just selective countries with alternative governing bodies. I wonder how say an. England Squad Elite player would fare playing a matchplay with someone who was a good 18 and gone up to 25 after a few bad rounds in a matchplay event, only one way there!

It will be interesting when the the season proper start in April, provided C19 vaccine available and all back to some normality. You could have a guy off say 12 having the medal round of his life shooting a 60 net only not no feature in the prizes as a 30 handicapper comes in with Net Sub 60. I can see the idea behind WHS but not so sure its the right system. Imagine me, I'll always be one, two or three over my handicap if I don't play well as I have an excellent short game, so in the past where I have missed the buffer by one shot I would go up 0.1 which is exactly the same as someone who has scored considerably above their handicap or NR'd and you both go up 0.1, how wrong was that please! at least new system sorts that out!
 

LOS

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#40
I’m glad I turned pro. The WHS is a joke. What made me laugh is that before making that decision I asked England golf if my European Golf Union handicap would be merged with my CONGU handicap so that my last 20 scores included my french club competitions..... answer was no. So it didn’t make it a ‘World’ system. So I was due to chose of o was to keep my french club handicap index of 1.7 or take my New England Golf one of 1.9.... ditched both. Now 0.0 🤣
I am surprised England Golf couldn't give you any advice as it is covered in the WHS.

1606062067686.png

CONGU also offered some guidance

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