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Is Custom Fit really beneficial to amateurs?

Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:36 am

Posted by derh50


I have been playing golf with a handicap between 4 and 9 for past 45 years. It is currently 7. My swing hasn't really changed over the years - just less flexible! 

Eighteen months ago I went to a premium club fitter with the intention of changing my irons (MP54s). At the end of the session, they recommended keeping the club heads and changing the shafts from KBS Tour S to KBS C Taper Lite S. They also recommended lengthening the shafts by 1/2 inch and changing the grips to golf pride plus 4. They also recommended that I DECREASE the lie angle by 1 degree. 

Recently I went to a Mizuno fitting with the intention of purchasing JPX 900 Forged - just for a change. Lovely club but the recommendation I received was my new order should the lengthen the shaft by 1/4 inch and to INCREASE the lie angle by 2 degree. 

That's a difference of 3 degrees which is huge. 

I am a reasonable ball striker yet the recommended variation in lie angle is significant. I do not argue that the recommendations were wrong - simply that as amateurs we have good, average and bad swings days which probably makes an accurate custom fitting impossible and perhaps, superfluous. (assuming some common sense is being applied to a purchase off the rack..) A better approach is to invest in more lessons and practice and then re evaluate. 

This experience has prompted me to "sit on my wallet" for the time being; I will probably end up ordering a set of new irons averaging out the recommendations.... 

PS: The last time (about 4 years ago) that I was fitted using the DNA - I was recommended MP64 with Project X shafts - at the fitting they were great - unfortunately they lasted 6 months as I was unable to use them. The good swing day at the fitting turned into many bad swing days on the course....  
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Re: Is Custom Fit really beneficial to amateurs?

Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:19 pm

Posted by LOS


derh50 wrote:

That's a difference of 3 degrees which is huge. 


You never mentioned what your original Lie Spec was. If it was originally 3* upright then a 1* decease would take it to +2.
A new fitting would start at standard lie and a 2* increase would take that to +2.
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Re: Is Custom Fit really beneficial to amateurs?

Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:54 pm

Posted by derh50


Original recommendation was standard less 1 degree.
Latest recommendation is standard plus 2 degree....
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Local club/country: Greystones GC
Irons: Mizuno H4 (3,4) MP 54 (5-W) Vokey 50, 54, Ping 58
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Re: Is Custom Fit really beneficial to amateurs?

Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:00 pm

Posted by Brattz


I defied any recommendation for lie alterations and asked for standard because I know my swing changes from day to day and that's why I'm not a pro. Also, we all tweak our swings in search of perfection and performance so why do it with a set of clubs designed for 'one' swing?
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Re: Is Custom Fit really beneficial to amateurs?

Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:51 pm

Posted by Varry Hardon


You could say the custom fitting is a good starting point (though not in your case).

However, based on the fact you only hit a 6 iron, it is massively overrated.

It is about 1% of the fitting process a pro will go through, which for obviously reasons is not practical at all for club players (takes too long).

Absolutely no substitute for knowing what shafts you prefer to hit.
"When I do a bad shot, I blame myself. When I do a good shot, the club gets all the credit" - me.
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Re: Is Custom Fit really beneficial to amateurs?

Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:37 am

Posted by Kgrove


Varry Hardon писал(а):You could say the custom fitting is a good starting point (though not in your case).

However, based on the fact you only hit a 6 iron, it is massively overrated.




I have a fundamental disagreement here. Most if not all iron fittings are driven mostly around a 6-iron. That's a normal iron fitting. 

First, a fitter can get everything they need to find you the right shaft, lie angle, etc from just one club. Second, think of the logistics if they had to test all clubs. The KBS Tour shaft just as an example comes in 5 different flexes. Fitters would need 35 different shafts if golfers wanted or needed to test all irons in a set, and that's if fitters only carried standard length and 4-PW sets.

There is a value in hitting other club lengths so you can see how a club model changes from long iron to PW, but my experience has been that this tends to be a smaller part of the fitting and is usually done with relatively generic stock shafts.
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Re: Is Custom Fit really beneficial to amateurs?

Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:14 am

Posted by hursty


Kgrove wrote:

Varry Hardon писал(а):You could say the custom fitting is a good starting point (though not in your case).

However, based on the fact you only hit a 6 iron, it is massively overrated.




I have a fundamental disagreement here. Most if not all iron fittings are driven mostly around a 6-iron. That's a normal iron fitting. 

First, a fitter can get everything they need to find you the right shaft, lie angle, etc from just one club. Second, think of the logistics if they had to test all clubs. The KBS Tour shaft just as an example comes in 5 different flexes. Fitters would need 35 different shafts if golfers wanted or needed to test all irons in a set, and that's if fitters only carried standard length and 4-PW sets.

There is a value in hitting other club lengths so you can see how a club model changes from long iron to PW, but my experience has been that this tends to be a smaller part of the fitting and is usually done with relatively generic stock shafts.


Disagree with that.

Fitting me at 2 degree up based on a 6i iron does not mean that my 3i or Wedge also needs to be 2 degree up.

I've been fitted 3 times by different places over the past 5 years or so and always taken their recommendations based on a 6i (2 deg up, 2 deg flat, 1 deg flat), after receiving my clubs I've carried out lie angle tests myself at our local range with tape and a strike board on ALL of the irons, guess what, every club was slightly different on the lie angles.

The issue is how thorough a fitting you want, with that will come extra cost.

An independent fitter/builder will probably cost more but i guarantee that the extra cost will include either a full set check or if they don't carry the full test irons the ability to take the new set back in once built to then have each iron lie angle adjusted for free.

Ultimately though, is custom fitting worth it? My personal view is its more of a nice thing to have done rather than an essential thing to have done, how consistent / repetitive are we with the swing as amateurs to actually reap the full benefits???? (i know I'm not :) )
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Re: Is Custom Fit really beneficial to amateurs?

Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:50 pm

Posted by Kgrove


I bet if you measure 2* upright on a 6i, your 3i and PW is closer to 2* upright than they are to standard lie? I'd think the lie angle measured from a 6i wouldn't move much as you go a few clubs either directionl. It's possible some of the needed adjustments you saw were also correcting for deviations in the club build if they missed the intended lie angle by 1/2* or so.

I don't think we're far apart in what we're saying. My main point was addressing the post before mine that said 6i based fittings were "massively overrated". I'd agree if it said they aren't perfect, but not massively overrated.  

The more comprehensive fitting you're describing is also consistent with a 6i based fitting - use the 6i to get the full set in the ballpark of correct, then fine tune each club after they arrive. That's level of thoroughness in a fitting is probably the difference between superstore fittings that are often included with purchase or are a small fee vs independent fitters who charge more. 

Fittings can be beneficial to amateurs. They aren't always very noticable as some people don't need much adjustment on either the club specs or club choices. Other people might see measurable improvements in consistency and distance either because they would have chosen clubs poorly suited to their game or they need different specs in lie angle, shaft length, etc to best deliver the club to the ball. All that said, if you have a horrible swing, well fit clubs will just make you a tiny bit more consistent but still horrible golfer, and I'm pretty sure Jason Day could out play me using his grandmother's clubs.
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Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:37 am
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
HCP: 12
Local club/country: USA
Irons: MP5 4-PW KBS Tour 90, MPH5 2-iron, Titleist 716 T-MB 3-iron
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Re: Is Custom Fit really beneficial to amateurs?

Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:31 pm

Posted by hursty


Kgrove wrote:

and I'm pretty sure Jason Day could out play me using his grandmother's clubs.


The way I'm playing I'm pretty sure Jason Days grandmother could out play me using his clubs!!!
Mizuno JPX 900 - Speeder 757 S
Mizuno JPX 900 3W - Speeder 661 X
Mizuno JPX 900 19 hy - Diamana Ahina 90H S
Mizuno MP-5 4i-PW - PX 6.0
Mizuno MPT-5 50/54/58 - C Taper Lite X
Odyssey Versa Works #9
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Posts: 2703
Location: Telford, Shropshire
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Local club/country: The Shropshire GC
Irons: MP-5 4-PW, MPT-5 50, 54 & 58 wedges
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Re: Is Custom Fit really beneficial to amateurs?

Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:14 pm

Posted by Varry Hardon


Kgrove wrote:

I don't think we're far apart in what we're saying. My main point was addressing the post before mine that said 6i based fittings were "massively overrated". I'd agree if it said they aren't perfect, but not massively overrated. 


Some club manufacturers - not sure from memory if Mizuno have ever done this - have referred to the single club fitting as "tour level" fitting.

Which it absolutely is not.

Ergo..
"When I do a bad shot, I blame myself. When I do a good shot, the club gets all the credit" - me.
Fire in the belly, space between the ears.
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